The Why
I'm trying to hack together some Over-The-Top Encounter By Dungeon Level Tables utilizing the material from all of the OSR Monster Books I have (The Swords & Wizardry Monster Book; Monster of Myth; Malevolent and Benign; and The Tome of Horrors Complete).
However, whereas AD&D/OSRIC categorizes monsters into a scale of I through to X for "Dungeon Level", Swords & Wizardry utilizes a Challenge Level scale that is analogous to the monster's hit dice, but adjusted for special abilities, so it's a more granular and also an open-ended scale.
The How
In the 1st edition Dungeon Masters Guide, in Appendix C: Random Monster Encounters on page 174, there is a table for determining appropriate dungeon levels for random monster encounters by use of it's experience value, such as III: 51-150 X.P. and IX: 5,501-10,000 X.P.
Obviously it's easier to convert from the more granular and open-ended Challenge Level scale to the restrained and smaller AD&D scale.
Now, as previously mentioned, the Swords & Wizardry Challenge Level is determined by a monsters Hit Dice (with adjustments for special abilities), so what I did was use the Experience Points Value of Monsters table from page 85 of the Dungeon Masters Guide to determine the "Dungeon Level" of a monster of average hit points and no special abilities for Hit Dice of 1 through to 21; after 21 I had to use some fancier math to determine at what Hit Dice an unspecial monster would need to Break the Dungeon Level X threshhold (31.7524 Hit Dice).
Interestingly enough according to this scheme the only monster in the Swords & Wizardry Monster Book that qualifies for Dungeon Level X is Orcus, Demon Prince of the Undead, which is actually in line with the AD&D tables. All of the CL 32+ monsters in the Tome of Horrors Complete are pretty much in line with the over-the-top nature of Level X AD&D Dungeon Monsters as well. When comparing some S&W version of monsters and their CL to their AD&D analogues and their Dungeon Levels they either match up or are off by 1 level, so this system is close enough for me.
S&W Challenge Ratings by AD&D/OSRIC Dungeon Levels
AD&D - S&W
I - 1
II - 2
III - 3,4
IV - 5
V - 6,7
VI - 8
VII - 9-14
VIII - 15-18
IX - 19-31
X - 32+
Showing posts with label mathematics. Show all posts
Showing posts with label mathematics. Show all posts
Saturday, August 20, 2011
Wednesday, December 9, 2009
Should Players Know Their Character's Saving Throws?
One subject that has popped up while discussing the Planet Algol Character Sheet (that new campaign participant Lester is designing) is the subject of saving throws.
In the past, when a player has been using an actual D&D character sheet instead of a piece of paper, the question of "What are my saving throws?" has come up when they get to the appropriate section.
My response, "You don't know your saving throws." My reasoning being: they are listed in the Dungeon Master's Guide for a reason. Not knowing them helps keep "the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain"; and it keeps the players from playing the probability game with their actions.
In 3.5 and especially 4E I had had it with the probability calculations, especially in 4E where you basically have to track numbers in order to have a chance of succeeding. (Note that as a 3.5/4E player I was a terrible abuser of meta-game calculating probabilities.)
Same goes with the "To Hit/THACO" sections of the character sheet "You don't need to know, just tell me what you roll.."
Part of this approach on my end is to make the world more chaotic and mysterious and to hide the mathematical workings of the game from the players. Knowledge of the numbers can contaminate your choice of actions, one example being that as a DM I don't like knowing a player character's current Hit Point total. I find myself pulling my punches knowing that a beloved character is almost dead. Although that is a weakness on my end, with my current "let the dice fall where they may and may the lucky and smart survive" philosophy, I don't want to know your current hit point total. It's a nice reversal of roles when the DM is the one surprised when a character dies!
So any of you that are old-school DMs, players, or just have an opinion on the subject: should players know their character's saving throws, THAC0, etc.?
In the past, when a player has been using an actual D&D character sheet instead of a piece of paper, the question of "What are my saving throws?" has come up when they get to the appropriate section.
My response, "You don't know your saving throws." My reasoning being: they are listed in the Dungeon Master's Guide for a reason. Not knowing them helps keep "the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain"; and it keeps the players from playing the probability game with their actions.
In 3.5 and especially 4E I had had it with the probability calculations, especially in 4E where you basically have to track numbers in order to have a chance of succeeding. (Note that as a 3.5/4E player I was a terrible abuser of meta-game calculating probabilities.)
Same goes with the "To Hit/THACO" sections of the character sheet "You don't need to know, just tell me what you roll.."
Part of this approach on my end is to make the world more chaotic and mysterious and to hide the mathematical workings of the game from the players. Knowledge of the numbers can contaminate your choice of actions, one example being that as a DM I don't like knowing a player character's current Hit Point total. I find myself pulling my punches knowing that a beloved character is almost dead. Although that is a weakness on my end, with my current "let the dice fall where they may and may the lucky and smart survive" philosophy, I don't want to know your current hit point total. It's a nice reversal of roles when the DM is the one surprised when a character dies!
So any of you that are old-school DMs, players, or just have an opinion on the subject: should players know their character's saving throws, THAC0, etc.?
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